Interventional/Surgery
Studies linking drug-eluting stents to increased mortality/MI spark impassioned pleas for reason and calls for calm
September 3, 2006 | Shelley Wood

Barcelona, Spain - Many attendees of the World Congress of Cardiology 2006 had quit the conference center for sunshine and sangria by the time Drs Edoardo Camenzind (University Hospital Geneva, Switzerland) and Alain J Nordmann (University Hospital Basel, Switzerland) took the stage Sunday evening with the final presentation of the hotline session, stunning the remaining audience members with evidence of increased death in patients randomized to drug-eluting stents (DES) within the trial programs that secured approval for the devices in the first place.

Both of the meta-analyses combined all of the Cordis/J&J-sponsored Cypher randomized trials, as well as the Boston Scientific-sponsored Taxus program: one found an increased incidence of death and Q-wave MI with the Cypher stent and a trend toward increased death/Q-wave-MI with the Taxus, while the second found no differences in cardiac mortality but an increase in noncardiac mortality, again with the Cypher stent.

Dr Edoardo Camenzind

The separate presentations, which shared a single hotline slot—necessitating rushed synopses on the part of the presenters—spurred discussant Dr Salim Yusuf (McMaster University, Hamilton, ON) to deliver a thundering indictment of what he later described to the press as an "epidemic of madness" over misuse of PCI for stable angina in general and drug-eluting stents specifically.

"As clinicians we seem to have lost our clinical judgment, let alone our ability to view data and evidence," Yusuf stated. "We therefore need a thoughtful and selective approach to PCI, complementing full medical therapy. . . . The whole field of angioplasty has been led astray by a preoccupation with restenosis, for which study after study has shown has no prognostic value. We're chasing problems that are iatrogenic that naturally would not exist in people. We've had a perverse financial incentive on the practice of cardiology. It is time to stop and reevaluate."


Two meta-analyses draw on company-sponsored trials
As clinicians we seem to have lost our clinical judgment, let alone our ability to view data and evidence.

Camenzind's meta-analysis was based on two separate analyses of the sirolimus and paclitaxel data. In the first, the investigators examined death and Q-wave MI in the published or presented papers, pooling them by time of follow-up. From eight to nine months of follow-up, out to one, two, and three years of follow-up, death/MI rates increased at rates that ranged from 30% to 40% higher in the Cypher-treated patients than those of the bare-metal-stent controls. A similar trend was seen, over time, for the paclitaxel-eluting stent, but here the relative difference between the Taxus and the bare-metal stent was only about 5% difference over the three years of follow-up.

In the second analysis, all of the randomized trials within each stent's program were stratified by last follow-up data. In this analysis, serious adverse events in sirolimus were 6.3% compared with 3.9% in the bare-metal-stent group (p=0.03) and in the paclitaxel trials were 2.6% vs 2.3% (p=NS).

"We conclude that death and Q-wave MI [as the] clinical presentation of stent thrombosis have a higher incidence in first-generation DES as compared with bare-metal controls," Camenzind stated. "Excess events appear to occur with both types of stents, although the magnitude seems to be higher with sirolimus. A risk/benefit analysis of systematic use of first-generation drug-eluting stents is warranted."

Dr Alain J Nordmann

Nordmann's findings, while raising the specter of increased deaths, actually clashed somewhat with those of Camenzind. Nordmann et al combined data from 17 randomized controlled trials of paclitaxel- or sirolimus-eluting stents to evaluate total mortality, cardiac mortality, and noncardiac mortality. While total mortality at one year trended toward a benefit of DES, at two, three, and four years the investigators saw a trend toward increased mortality with DES. For cardiac mortality, however, there was no statistically significant difference between DES and bare-metal stents or for either sirolimus- or paclitaxel-eluting stent compared with bare-metal stents. Most striking, however, was the data for noncardiac deaths, which at two and three years pointed to an association between sirolimus stent implantation and increased noncardiac mortality. Separate analyses identified these deaths as cancer, stroke, or lung disease.

"DES for the treatment of coronary artery disease do not reduce mortality when compared with bare-metal stents," Nordmann concluded. "Preliminary evidence suggests that sirolimus but not paclitaxel may lead to an increase in noncardiac mortality. Long-term follow-up and assessment of cause-specific deaths in patients receiving DES are mandatory to determine safety of patients receiving these devices."


Impassioned calls for a fresh look at DES, without industry involvement

Dr Salim Yusuf

To the press, Nordmann pointed out that obtaining raw data on mortality from the stent manufacturers had been "extremely difficult," highlighting the need for non-company-sponsored, large randomized clinical trials with ample follow-up.

At the very least, said Yusuf, large registries should be mandated to track adverse events in DES recipients. But Yusuf also made a plea to the major cardiovascular organizations to step up and revisit not only the use of DES but the role of PCI in the treatment of stable, non-drug-refractory angina. And to be clear, he added, PCI and drug-eluting stents play a key role in the treatment of unstable angina and acute coronary syndrome—it is as a treatment for stable angina to treat non-life-threatening restenosis that Yusuf singles out as a "myth" and a "man-made disease."

Long-term follow-up and assessment of cause-specific deaths in patients receiving DES are mandatory to determine safety of patients receiving these devices.

As for the meta-analyses themselves, Yusuf stated: "These new studies raise concern. I do not believe these trials are convincing, but they are disconcerting given that we have no data that this procedure is useful. There is a significant excess in noncardiac deaths, and we need to find out if this is real."

Pausing to assure a tittering audience that he was dead serious in his comments, Yusuf added, "I call on the ESC to [convene] a balanced and independent working group, and not just of interventionalists. Certainly you can bring them in, but also noninterventionalists, health economists, patient representatives, and government representatives, and have a committee to find out what the real role of PCI is, of these stents, and keep industry out of it."

Camenzind, for his part, stopped short of denying a role for drug-eluting stents, insisting that his study, and his misgivings, apply only to the two first-generation drug-eluting stents. "We need stents that can control restenosis, that don't totally abolish the healing process but that are able to control it."


Third study also sparks debate

Yet another study, presented earlier in the day by Dr Peter Wenaweser (Thorax Center, Rotterdam, the Netherlands) also highlighted the stent thrombosis risk with DES. In the study, Wenaweser and colleagues examined rates of early and late stent thrombosis in patients enrolled in the SIRTAX and Post-SIRTAX registries in Bern and the RESEARCH and T-SEARCH registries in Rotterdam, between April 2002 and December 2005. In Bern, patients received clopidogrel and aspirin for three to six months, while in Rotterdam, patients received dual antiplatelet therapy for three to 12 months. Only angiographically documented stent thromboses were included in the analysis.

All of the presentations are pointing to the fact that stent thrombosis is there and needs a solution. It exists, but it's not terrifying.

In all, 152 stent thromboses occurred in 8146 patients. The cumulative incidence of stent thrombosis was 2.9%, yielding a rate of 1.3 per 100 patient-years. The rate of stent thrombosis was 1.2% at 30 days, 1.7 at one year, 2.3 at two years, and 2.9% at three years, "an almost linear increase of 0.6% per year between 30 days and three years," Wenaweser commented.

In interviews with heartwire, experts tried to put the findings in perspective, offering the oft-repeated calls for longer clopidogrel duration. Dr Antonio Colombo's group (Columbus Hospital, Milan, Italy) has a forthcoming paper examining rates of stent thrombosis in patients who quit dual antiplatelet therapy at one year, compared with patients who stayed on the drug out to three years.

Dr Peter Wenaweser

"I think all of the presentations are pointing to the fact that stent thrombosis is there and needs a solution," Colombo told heartwire. "It exists, but it's not terrifying. My problem with this issue is that we did not use bare-metal stents in situations where we now use DES, so I doubt we can do a fair comparison of stent thrombosis between DES and bare-metal stents."

He also questions whether stent thrombosis rates continue to climb after two years. "I'm not convinced that we have a continuous rate, I think it probably grows up to two years, but from two years on, tends to level off. . . . We should not forget that so many patients in the randomized trials have been off antiplatelet therapy for a long time, and those patients are not dying and having MIs all the time."

Also commenting on the Wenaweser study for heartwire, Dr Anthony Gershlick (Nuffield Leicester Hospital, UK) insisted that it is important to see published papers before jumping to conclusions. For one thing, Wenaweser did not present data on percentage follow-up, making it difficult to appreciate stent thrombosis rate increases over time. As well, there are no studies tracking the "cumulative" stent thrombosis rate for bare-metal stents. "The absolute difference between DES and bare-metal stents will not be 2.9%, it will be 2.9% minus the cumulative rate for bare-metal stents," he noted. "What we need to know is the excess cumulative risk."


Your comments
Studies linking drug-eluting stents to increased mortality/MI spark impassioned pleas for reason a
# 1 of 57
September 6, 2006 09:21 (EDT)
Hugh McIntyre
Straying
Dr Yusuf is surely only partially correct - the field of coronary artery disease has been led astray by stenosis.

Preoccupation with the fixed stenosis (non-life threatening) begat angioplasty (some risk) and the ensuing persuit of the perfect radiological lumen - of little prognostic benefit, but at increasing risk, to the owner.

# 2 of 57
September 6, 2006 11:53 (EDT)
Melissa Walton-Shirley
eloquent
Hugh,
Dr. Yusef would agree i'm certain.
Thanks for your observation.
See our posts on the heartwire and forum from the ESC as our journalist covered the meta analysys presentation, press conference and debate.
# 3 of 57
September 7, 2006 08:12 (EDT)
Anit Dua
Should there be a moratorium on the use of DES ?
Clearly the benefits of these stents have been overblown and millions of patients paid through their noses to get them or are still getting them. Similar stories abound in medicine which are all too common these days.

So with all this data should any reasonable cardiologist be using drug-eluting stents at all or should there be a moratorium on their use till we get more data ?
# 4 of 57
September 8, 2006 12:09 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
Let's temper "anti-stent" fever
If I'm 45 years old with a symptomatic 80% lesion in my LAD, I want the artery opened....not a prescription for Toprol, Imdur and Ranexa. Going further, if my artery is to be opened, I want a stent, not POBA. Having decided upon a stent, depending upon the underlying anatomy, I am likely going to favor a DES.

There are legitimate concerns regarding the long-term safety of DES, but that shouldn't lead us to conclude that PCI is only of marginal benefit. A fixed stenosis of 80% may not be actually be "non-life threatening" if we are still to believe that 15-20% of acute MIs are due to thrombosis superimposed upon a high grade stenosis (as opposed to plaque rupture in a non-flow limiting lesion). In addition, using the example above, in the long term I want the LAD territory supplied by a patent vessel (and not supplied by RCA collaterals), so that I avoid "the big one" should a plaque rupture in the proximal RCA.

I don't think the benefit of these stents has been "overblown". My first year in practice, in-stent restenosis was ~20% of my interventional volume. I can count on one hand the number of ISR cases I have treated in the DES era.

Let us not forget that the reported adverse events are still VERY small in number, but certainly enough to raise concerns and prompt further investigation. Let's not toss out our Taxus and Cypher inventory just yet.
# 5 of 57
September 8, 2006 03:51 (EDT)
Guido Belli
clinical interventional cardiology
I absolutely agree. However, the truth of the matter is also that over the past few years we have been made to believe (especially at all of these unbelievably sponsored and ever less scientific meetings ...) that you cannot consider yourself a good interventionalist if you also do not reopen, place multiple stents and re-treat (... for ANGIOGRAPHIC restenosis ..) multiple times diffusely diseased vessels, bifurcating and trifurcating coronaries, in oftentimes CLINICALLY STABLE patients. Less emphasis is placed on the impressive outcomes achieved by PCI in ACUTE coronary syndromes ... maybe because the bulk of our practice does not come from those ... More stents in small vessels (clinically insignificant), more angiographic controls, more restenosis, more PCIs yet ... and so on .... Let's all retrain for 6 months in clinical cardiology, see patients in long term follow up: it might heal our backs and maybe put things in a slightly different perspective.... My proximal focal LAD will certainly get a DES, but I will not ever let anyone fool around for too long with my chronically subtotally occluded OMs and PDAs (especially NOT during a live case ...) A little more Toprol will do just fine ....
# 6 of 57
September 8, 2006 06:12 (EDT)
Mike Hawke
gb on the money
you are right.
the acute mi's sure , prox lad sure,
but the stuff we see at the ACC and conferences are crazy...bifurcations, high risk interventions for questionable benefit; fiddling with totally occluded arteries that are small.
You are right that there is this mindset that to be a good interventionalist you need to 'be aggressive'
I like your idea of taking 6 months off and seeing that patients do very well with meds; less back pain and less radiation too!
# 7 of 57
September 8, 2006 06:54 (EDT)
Melissa Walton-Shirley
We need to do more"meddling" and less "metalling"
Mike, everyone-
We definitely need to be MORE agressive, but aggressive with regard to treating the underlying condition-inflammation, vasospasm, placque rupture. Metal is not the answer for any of this. Metal is the answer for high grade fixed stenosis that produces a large territory of reversible ischemia. Metal should be utilized when FFR or IVUS doppler demonstrates functional significance. Metal should be utilized for the abortion of a threatened or acute infarct. Metal should be utilized for patients who's quality of life is significantly impacted by angina. Otherwise, we are hooking patients on clopedigrel indefinitely for no good reason when we reach for a DES. There are now millions of plavix junkies walking around the world hoping their gallbladder behaves itself.
This spotlights the particular concern with the non-cardiac death issue in patients hooked on clopedigrel. Most DES pts. can't get operated "on time", some can't get operated at all, they can't get their teeth filled or cleaned by many dentists who haven't figure out yet that they won't bleed to death from dental procedures on clopedigrel, they can't have their ERCP on time, etc. . Surgeons treat them like lepers which translates into increased morbity (and probably mortality) from co-morbidities.
If as much thinking went into the statin/exercise prescription/dietary recommendation with followup and motivational programming for our patients as did even taking the time to cath our pts, size and select our stents, we would see a dramatic drop in the death and morbidity rate in this country from CAD.
If we as physicians just aren't going to take the time to do it, we should at least hire NP's and RN's to do the real part of medicine that technology has forced out of our daily practice life.
Instead of "metalling" all of our patients to death, we need to be "meddling" into their daily exercise and diet routine. Not everyone needs the full metal jacket laced with DES everytime they come in with chest pain.
As for me, I think I'd rather slowly re-stenosis my proximal LAD than acutely occlude it.
Melissa
# 8 of 57
September 8, 2006 08:14 (EDT)
Hugh McIntyre
Perspective
Duke showed years ago that 10 METS on a treadmill (end Stage III atandard Bruce) predicted good prognosis even in those with surgical 3VD.

AVERT 1997 showed that exercise plus atorva was BETTER that then PCI.

Who listened? Who wanted to listen?
Sexy sells and we are all consumers.

Stent the ACS - cap the volcano - a logical respone to a pathological imperative.

But beyond that?

What is ischaemia anyway? And what about vasoreactivity? What about the microvasculature?

The perfect lumen is a blind alley.










# 9 of 57
September 8, 2006 10:17 (EDT)
D Hackam
our pt's gallbladders
Risk of Noncardiac Surgery After Coronary Drug-Eluting Stent Implantation

P. Alexander Compton MDa, Ahmad A. Zankar MDb, c, Adebola O. Adesanya MDd, Subhash Banerjee MDb, c and Emmanouil S. Brilakis MD, MScb, c, ,

We examined the records of 38 patients who underwent 41 major and 18 minor noncardiac surgeries after successful drug-eluting stent (DES) implantation (57% sirolimus-eluting stents and 43% paclitaxel-eluting stents) at the Dallas Veterans Affairs Medical Center from April 2003 to January 2006. The mean patient age was 62 ą 9 years, and all patients were men. A total of 41 major noncardiac surgeries (34% abdominal, 22% vascular, 17% genitourinary, and 27% other) were performed in 28 patients a median of 260 days after DES implantation. Also, 18 minor noncardiac surgeries (44% skin surgery, 44% injections, and 12% other) were performed in 10 patients a median of 297 days after DES implantation. No major adverse cardiac event or death occurred during or after the 41 major (0%, 95% confidence interval 0% to 9%) and 18 minor noncardiac (0%, 95% confidence interval 0% to 19%) surgeries. In conclusion, although our data were limited by the small sample size, they suggest a low risk of major cardiac complications in patients undergoing noncardiac surgery after coronary DES implantation.
# 10 of 57
September 8, 2006 10:36 (EDT)
con aroney
Dan
Dan,

In the study you cited, what antiplatelet regimen was employed in those patients undergoing non-cardiac surgery?

Did they all remain on aspirin?
# 11 of 57
September 8, 2006 01:10 (EDT)
D Hackam
response
Con
Happy to email you the full article. Post-procedure all patients got aspirin and plavix.

Then for the major surgeries, they state that "aspirin and clopidogrel were continued during the perioperative period in 78% and 41%, respectively." For the minor surgeries, "aspirin and clopidogrel were continued during the perioperative period in 94% and 39%, respectively."
# 12 of 57
September 8, 2006 05:08 (EDT)
Melissa Walton-Shirley
thanks for the data
Dan,
Great study, though small, helpful, however, I believe the problem is with the the ones who don't get the surgery.
Melissa
# 13 of 57
September 9, 2006 04:03 (EDT)
Mike Hawke
couldn't have said it better
Melissa,
You have said it correctly...you speak the exact truth as to what we need to do to combat cad.
The question is...will we as the cardiology and interventional community rise to the occasion and do what is right for patients?
# 14 of 57
September 9, 2006 06:04 (EDT)
Guido Belli
things will never change
Thanks indeed for the info on DES and surgery, not much in the literature. Back to what we were talking about initially, how will anyting ever change when at major meetings we always see the same faces that 10 years ago told us that you can't do PCI without a rotablator, than lasers, then radioactive stents (remember those ...? How much animal data did we really have before those great devices were implanted in men ...?), not to talk about the wonders of atherectomy and brachitherapy and so on and so forth. Check the forum on Dr. Yadav: undoubtedly his was a great invention but .....when do we really have to treat (stent) ASYMPTOMATIC carotid artery disease, which now make up the greatest slice of large carotid stent series (don't get me wrong, vascular surgeons have done probably the same for many years ...) I am just glad to realize, talking to many colleagues, that slowly buy steadily the less visible majority of interventionalists have become allergic to hype and are going back to basics and common sense ... or at least let's hope so. Attending a meeting does not mean that everybody agrees and what they are being told ("fed" might be a more appropriate word)...
# 15 of 57
September 9, 2006 09:44 (EDT)
D Hackam
trigger for stenting in stable angina
This situation won't change under current guidelines for the w/u of CAD. The following is the chain reaction that usually (invariably) takes place:

1) patient with chest pain gets a non-invasive test

2) if the non-invasive test is positive (or equivocal in a patient with greater than low probability), the trigger is to then go on and cath (not just medically optimize) to define the anatomy

3) once we cath and find a high-grade stenosis, the trigger is then to go on and do PCI (rather than leaving the lesion alone and medically optimize). Perhaps this is for medicolegal reasons, perhaps for renumeration for the physician, perhaps it's misguided but with "best intentions", but this is the usual sequence of events with stable angina.

The key may then be to stop doing so many diagnostic caths at the instigation of the non-invasive test, and use the non-invasive data more wisely with respect to risk stratification and medically optimize more patients (anti-anginals, statins, antiplatelets, ACE inhibitors, lifestyle modification, stress reduction, etc).

Nothing will change until the diagnostic algorithm is modified.
# 16 of 57
September 9, 2006 03:56 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
What would you do?
I'm enjoying this Forum discussion, and I do agree with much of what has been said. Medical therapy has been deemphasized and underutilized in chronic angina. Chest thumping and grandstanding has become common at meetings and on-line: "Look at my left main trifucation stenting technique." As many have already suggested, PCI in stable angina does not confer a benefit in regard to survival or future myocardial infarction; however, there are important endpoints beyond mortality. Every year, thousands of patients subject themselves to the operative risk of hip and knee replacements. There certainly is no mortality benefit to having a knee replaced, but ask someone contemplating the procedure if they would prefer to live in chronic pain, debilitated, requiring assistance in nearly all activities, and relying heavily on injections, NSAIDS, and oral narcotics for incomplete relief of their pain.

I would like to ask the Forum participants how they would approach a patient that I treated last year:

A 56 yo prominent judge is referred to you after failing a stress ECG. The stress test was ordered after his endocrinologist (treating his thyroid disease, not diabetes) noted ECG changes at his annual follow-up visit. The judge is completely asymptomatic, plays 90 minutes of "vigorous basketball" three mornings a week with men 1/2 his age. During the stress ECG, his test was stopped in Stage IV due to dramatic ST depression; however, he was asymptomatic and states he could have "exercised much longer".

After evaluating him, I ordered a stress Myoview study. He exercised to stage V with no limitations, he was completely ASYMPTOMATIC at this high workload, there were dramatic ECG changes, and his myoview images were terrible: a LARGE fully reversible ischemic defect involving the entire lateral wall and much of the inferior wall.

What next?
# 17 of 57
September 9, 2006 04:21 (EDT)
Mike Hawke
cath
I would do a cath Joel.
We should know the anatomy and then we can decide what is best.
There is data from the ACIP trial that revascularization is beneficial for cad.
I assume his ef is n.
asa, betablocker, statin, niaspan and ace/arb would of course be on the list.
If you find a tight cx lesion my gut still tells me to revascularize it.
Am I a hypocrite? I don't know; I'm just trying to find my way and do the best I can for people.
Data from germany says he can be treated medically; tough situation.
# 18 of 57
September 9, 2006 06:22 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
That's what I did
I did take him to cath, and he had a codominant LCX with a very large OM that was subtotally occluded. He's a bright guy, and I told him that based on current data it could be argued that PCI would offer no benefit; however, I couldn't stand the thought of the judge running up and down the basketball court three times a week inducing ischemia of the magnitude seen on the myoview. I recanalized the OM and it was an incredibly large vessel. I ran a subsequent stress, and I took him into stage VI of the Bruce protocol: No symptoms, lesser ECG changes, and no inducible ischemia on myoview images.

I was trying to bait some of my conservative colleagues with a real life example. I recently had another referral for a CTO of the proximal LAD with excellent right to left collaterals. The patient led an extremely active lifestyle and was having exertional symptoms limiting his hobby of water skiing and landscaping business. His nuclear study showed no ischemia and his LV fxn was normal. He was cathed by another cardiologist in town, and the recommendation was medical management of his proximal LAD CTO. I concurred that medical management was appropriate; however, he was frustrated with side-effects. Imdur gave him headaches and lightheadedness, and Toprol made him tired and limited his exercise capacity (not to mention the changes he noticed in the bedroom). I recanalized the CTO, and he feels great on aspirin, plavix, and a statin.

The fact of the matter is that we need to exercise judgement in the cath lab. We all know colleagues who are technically phenomenal but lack clinical judgement. Clinical trials are great, but they often don't assist in the management of the patient sitting in your exam room. The inclusion/exclusion criteria often don't reflect "real life" medicine. I'm currently the local PI on a TIMI trial. We have screened over 200 ACS patients, and only 7 have been enrolled the study. How can I apply the results to everyday practice?

Someone questioned the benefit of treating of asymptomatic high grade carotid stenoses. Three large surgical trials certainly suggested benefit: NASCET, ECST, and ACAS. Once again, the trials are limited in general applicability. High-risk patients were excluded. In ACAS, 25 patients were screened for every 1 patient enrolled.
# 19 of 57
September 11, 2006 09:32 (EDT)
Guido Belli
clinical judgement
.... actually NASCET and ECST were in SYMPTOMATIC patients, I believe. However, the point I was trying to make is exactly what you referred to: we must exercise clinical judgement in the cath lab. But again, is this the focus of the major interventional meetings ???? I doubt it very much. The cases you mentioned have plenty of back-up clinical data to be supported by (large area of inducible ischemia in n 1 and ... ANGINA !!!! in n 2 - there is nothing wrong in treating a patient with angina with PCI. He HAS a problem and a complaint and therefore looks for and needs a Doctor ... to solve his problem. The data on an asymptomatic 60 to 70% carotid is, on the contrary, much much weaker to say the least (if not non-existent) with the little problem that one out of one hundred patients who at least feel healthy (no symptoms) could come out of the procedure .... well, you know ... unhappy ... Furthermore, cath lab clinical judgement encompasses an evaluation or relative potential risks and benefits for certain lesion subsets (ask the people who have organized a "CTO Summit" ..!?!?? - you have to be kidding me !!! ... How many of their patients acually have life-limiting symptoms ? Not the prox LADs, I want to know about the other ones (mid-distal RCAs, OMs, mid-Cx ....) And don't forget to mention the 0,5-1% chance of (treatable but .....unpleasant...) cardiac tamponade, ask the Patient what he thinks.........
# 20 of 57
September 11, 2006 10:45 (EDT)
David Cohen
Judgement
I gave a talk at the ACC about 2 years ago entitled "Who doesn't need a PCI?" It was actually very interesting to put together and has helped quite a bit to shape my own clinical judgement. It seemed to me that the talk was fairly well-received, but of course there was probably a lot of self-selection on the part of the attendees.
# 21 of 57
September 11, 2006 11:09 (EDT)
con aroney
Paper
Dan,

Could you email that paper on DES and non-cardiac surhery, as you offered.

Many thanks,

conar@bigpond.net.au
# 22 of 57
September 11, 2006 12:12 (EDT)
D Hackam
G B are you aware of this trial?
Lancet, Volume 363, Issue 9420 , 8 May 2004, Pages 1491-1502

Prevention of disabling and fatal strokes by successful carotid endarterectomy in patients without recent neurological symptoms: randomised controlled trial

MRC Asymptomatic Carotid Surgery Trial (ACST) Collaborative Group

Background: Among patients with substantial carotid artery narrowing but no recent neurological symptom (stroke or transient ischaemia), the balance of surgical risks and longterm benefits from carotid endarterectomy (CEA) was unclear.

Methods: During 1993–2003, 3120 asymptomatic patients with substantial carotid narrowing were randomised equally between immediate CEA (half got CEA by 1 month, 88% by 1 year) and indefinite deferral of any CEA (only 4% per year got CEA) and were followed for up to 5 years (mean 3ˇ4 years). Kaplan-Meier analyses of 5-year risks are by allocated treatment.

Findings: The risk of stroke or death within 30 days of CEA was 3ˇ1% (95% Cl 2ˇ3–4ˇ1). Comparing all patients allocated immediate CEA versus all allocated deferral, but excluding such perioperative events, the 5-year stroke risks were 3ˇ8% versus 11% (gain 7ˇ2% [95% Cl 5ˇ0–9ˇ4], p<0ˇ0001). This gain chiefly involved carotid territory ischaemic strokes (2ˇ7% vs 9ˇ5%; gain 6ˇ8% [4ˇ8–8ˇ8], p<0ˇ0001), of which half were disabling or fatal (1ˇ6% vs 5ˇ3%; gain 3ˇ7% [2ˇ1–5ˇ2], p<0ˇ0001), as were half the perioperative strokes. Combining the perioperative events and the non-perioperative strokes, net 5-year risks were 6ˇ4% versus 11ˇ8% for all strokes (net gain 5ˇ4% [3ˇ0–7ˇ8], p<0ˇ0001), 3ˇ5% versus 6ˇ1% for fatal or disabling strokes (net gain 2ˇ5% [0ˇ8–4ˇ3], p=0ˇ004), and 2ˇ1% versus 4ˇ2% just for fatal strokes (net gain 2ˇ1% [0ˇ6–3ˇ6], p=0ˇ006). Subgroup-specific analyses found no significant heterogeneity in the perioperative hazards or (apart from the importance of cholesterol) in the long-term postoperative benefits. These benefits were separately significant for males and females; for those with about 70%, 80%, and 90% carotid artery narrowing on ultrasound; and for those younger than 65 and 65–74 years of age (though not for older patients, half of whom die within 5 years from unrelated causes). Full compliance with allocation to immediate CEA or deferral would, in expectation, have produced slightly bigger differences in the numbers operated on, and hence in the net 5-year benefits. The 10-year benefits are not yet known.

Interpretation: In asymptomatic patients younger than 75 years of age with carotid diameter reduction about 70% or more on ultrasound (many of whom were on aspirin, antihypertensive, and, in recent years, statin therapy), immediate CEA halved the net 5-year stroke risk from about 12% to about 6% (including the 3% perioperative hazard). Half this 5-year benefit involved disabling or fatal strokes. But, outside trials, inappropriate selection of patients or poor surgery could obviate such benefits.
# 23 of 57
September 11, 2006 12:15 (EDT)
D Hackam
Con
emailed.

G B, I am curious as to your thoughts on this study from the UK in the Lancet on asymp carotid stenosis.

D
# 24 of 57
September 11, 2006 06:22 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
Thanks Dan
GB, you are correct that NASCET and ECST were patients with symptomatic stenoses; however, I also mentioned ACAS in which the "A" stands for "Asymptomatic". In ACAS, asymptomatic patients with a greater than 50% stenosis experienced a stroke rate of 11% at 5 years without revascularization. There were many shortcomings in the ACAS design, but this was the trial upon which CEA in asymptomatic patients was justified. The greatest benefit was in those asymptomatic patients with a stenosis greater than 70%; therefore, this became the threshold for many surgeons. The 2004 Lancet article that Dan submitted simply validated what many surgeons were already doing in practice.

I have thorough discussions with my asymptomatic patients prior to sending them CEA or carotid stent . I explain to them that we are playing the odds: we accept an upfront stroke risk of 1-3% to offset a higher long-term stroke risk. Most understand that there is a risk to revascularization, but they also understand that there is a risk to simply managing their disease medically.
# 25 of 57
September 11, 2006 08:25 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
Confusing sentence
GB, In my original post, I inadvertently added the word "asymptomatic" before listing the trials. I suspect that most Forum participants are familiar with the trials; however let me clarify: NASCET and ECST were North American and European trials of SYMPTOMATIC carotid stenoses. ACAS, as mentioned, enrolled patients with ASYMPTOMATIC stenoses.

I share your sentiment about touting highly aggressive techniques for relatively benign conditions. If I were to play devil's advocate, I would point out that most pioneers have been viewed as "crazy renegades" at one point in their career before eventually earning the title of "visionary". Someone needs to push the envelope for advances to occur.
# 26 of 57
September 11, 2006 09:03 (EDT)
D Hackam
G B and Joel
I wonder if you have come across this meta-analysis, recently published in Circ. Sorry to bandy so much literature around but I agree with GB that there is simply no evidence that PCI is better than intensive medical therapy. (incidentally one can believe this meta-analysis practically on the name of the senior author alone - who is extremely experienced with systematic review techniques)

Percutaneous Coronary Intervention Versus Conservative Therapy in Nonacute Coronary Artery Disease
A Meta-Analysis
Demosthenes G. Katritsis, MD, PhD; John P.A. Ioannidis, MD

From the Department of Cardiology, Athens Euroclinic, Athens, Greece (D.G.K.); the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine, Ioannina, Greece (J.P.A.I.); Biomedical Research Institute, Foundation for Research and Technology—Hellas, Ioannina, Greece (J.P.A.I.); and the Institute for Clinical Research and Health Policy Studies, Tufts-New England Medical Center, Tufts University School of Medicine, Boston, Mass (J.P.A.I.).

Background— Percutaneous coronary intervention (PCI) has been shown to improve symptoms compared with conservative medical treatment in patients with stable coronary artery disease (CAD); however, there is limited evidence on the effect of PCI on the risk of death, myocardial infarction, and subsequent revascularization. Therefore, we performed a meta-analysis of 11 randomized trials comparing PCI to conservative treatment in patients with stable CAD.

Methods and Results— A total of 2950 patients were included in the meta-analysis (1476 received PCI, and 1474 received conservative treatment). There was no significant difference between the 2 treatment strategies with regard to mortality, cardiac death or myocardial infarction, nonfatal myocardial infarction, CABG, or PCI during follow-up. By random effects, the risk ratios (95% CIs) for the PCI versus conservative treatment arms were 0.94 (0.72 to 1.24), 1.17 (0.88 to 1.57), 1.28 (0.94 to 1.75), 1.03 (0.80 to 1.33), and 1.23 (0.80 to 1.90) for these 5 outcomes, respectively. A possible survival benefit was seen for PCI only in trials of patients who had a relatively recent myocardial infarction (risk ratio 0.40, 95% CI 0.17 to 0.95). Except for PCI during follow-up, there was no significant between-study heterogeneity for any outcome.

Conclusions— In patients with chronic stable CAD, in the absence of a recent myocardial infarction, PCI does not offer any benefit in terms of death, myocardial infarction, or the need for subsequent revascularization compared with conservative medical treatment.
# 27 of 57
September 12, 2006 07:05 (EDT)
Guido Belli
70 and up
Joel and Dan, I was aware of those studies, that is why I was purposefully and for argument's sake asking about an hypothetical "60 to 70" stenosis". There are analysis (I don'remember the exact biblio, however) showing a gradient of risk for carotids as the stenosis progresses (low with 50-60%, much higher with 80 to 90%, and then again much LOWER once the stenosis becomes a total (or subtotal occlusion). Here is my challenge: let's take a few large series of carotid stents (a few hundred patients) and focus our attention on the 70 to 80% of patients in the series who likely were A-symptomatic ... review their angios, Dopplers, clinical condition ... case by case. Unfortunately it cannot be done, and those who question an overly aggressive stand are not given many opportunities to speak up. After all, you said it, these are "inferior" interventionalists, they do not "push the envelope"....Well, I for one (and being an interventionalist !) still don't buy it, what can I say ... I certainly can be wrong, my frustration is that because of all these great pioneers and their crazy stuff we lose sight of all the great clinical achievements that have indeed been made in our field. I am just a little fed up with it, but it's OK, I can definetely live with it ... Dan, a not so evidence.based statement: I do believe that people with REAL angina from a REAL SEVERE CORONARY STENOSIS do (much) better with stents (they feel better, and in order to assess if they live longer we probably need studies with 10 to 20 years of follow-up - the higher risk cohorts also probably live longer) Again, when you look at large series the selected population and INDICATIONS may certainly mud the waters ....
# 28 of 57
September 12, 2006 09:51 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
More conservative does not equal inferior
Those who don't "push the envelope" are not neccessarily inferior in regard to skill level. I detected the sarcasm, and I know you meant it facetiously. As I said, if I were to defend CTO summits, etc, I would use the previous argument; however, one must base some of their practice on "local standard of care." In other words, there may be greater license to perform highly aggressive procedures in a refractory end-of-the-line patient sent to Duke, Hopkins, Mayo or CCF as a last ditch effort. If I were to undertake the same procedure at my community tertiary care hospital, I would be called before the Patient Care Committee within 24 hours.

I'm not defending all cowboy interventionalists as visionaries in the making. I'm highly disturbed by the financial stake these individuals often have in the technology they promote.

In the early to mid-80s, there was a school of thought that acute MIs were due to hemorrhage behind a plaque pushing the plaque inward and leading to occlusion. As a result of this thinking, heparin was being withheld. Giving lytics would have been considered "crazy"; however, we know how this story ends. Barry Marshall recently won the Nobel prize for the H. pylori/PUD connection. When he first hypothesized the H. pylori connection, nearly everyone thought he was nuts. When he intentionally infected himself (and his unfortunate GI fellows) with H. pylori to help prove his theory, people were then certain he was crazy. Fast forward 20 years, and he is winning the Nobel prize. Few of the current podium pundits are truly visionaries. Many are simply looking for a new vehicle to propel their academic careers, while others may be hoping for the financial windfall of a successful device; however, despite my cynicism, I believe there are still phenomenally bright individuals whose work will eventually throw conventional thinking on its head and change the way medicine is practiced.
# 29 of 57
September 12, 2006 05:02 (EDT)
Hugh McIntyre
Unknowns
Believing something may help is not the same as helping. (HRT, Vit E etc)

The problem is knowing.

Why cant' we say, I do not know, instead of training angels to dance on pins. Is this a doctor thing?

Rumsfeld is a sage. He had the guts to say publicly -
there are unknown unknowns -
and he was mocked.

Much of what we do we do not have a clue about. First be confortable with this. Put down your trials.

Then we maybe can see. Step back and marvel that we really dont have much of a clue about CHD, or how statins REALLY work or why the hell plaque destabilises or comes and goes.

We are fighetend to declare our ignorance, and conceal it with uncertain action.

I do not know what to do with the judge. I do know tablets that will keep him alive. I am uncomfortable not with his symptoms but with his tests (ischaemia) but I do not know what is best for him. Given this position, is it better to assume he will come to harm if I do not revacularise ( for which I have no proof) or that he will come to harm if f I revacsularise (for which I have some proof)?

I do not know.







# 30 of 57
September 13, 2006 08:27 (EDT)
Guido Belli
neither do I
... I don't know either, but some good studies are there for some thinking... (also to convince superskeptics that PCI is not so bad all the time even to simply relieve chronic ischemia ...)

Comparison of the Short-Term Survival Benefit Associated With Revascularization Compared With Medical Therapy in Patients With No Prior Coronary Artery Disease Undergoing Stress Myocardial Perfusion Single Photon Emission Computed Tomography
Rory Hachamovitch, MD, MSc; Sean W. Hayes, MD; John D. Friedman, MD;
Ishac Cohen, PhD; Daniel S. Berman, MD
Background—The relationship between the amount of inducible ischemia present on stress myocardial perfusion single
photon emission computed tomography (myocardial perfusion stress [MPS]) and the presence of a short-term survival
benefit with early revascularization versus medical therapy is not clearly defined.
Methods and Results—A total of 10 627 consecutive patients who underwent exercise or adenosine MPS and had no prior myocardial infarction or revascularization were followed up (90.6% complete; mean: 1.90.6 years). Cardiac death occurred in 146 patients (1.4%). Treatment received within 60 days after MPS defined subgroups undergoing
revascularization (671 patients, 2.8% mortality) or medical therapy (MT) (9956 patients, 1.3% mortality; P=0.0004).
To adjust for nonrandomization of treatment, a propensity score was developed using logistic regression to model the decision to refer to revascularization. This model identified inducible ischemia and anginal symptoms as the most powerful predictors (83%, 6% of overall _2) and was incorporated into survival models. On the basis of the Cox proportional hazards model predicting cardiac death (_2_539, P_0.0001), patients undergoing MT demonstrated a survival advantage over patients undergoing revascularization in the setting of no or mild ischemia,whereas patients undergoing revascularization had an increasing survival benefit over patients undergoing MT when moderate to severe ischemia was present. Furthermore, increasing survival benefit for revascularization over MT was noted in higher risk patients (elderly, adenosine stress, and women, especially those with diabetes). Conclusions—Revascularization compared with MT had greater survival benefit (absolute and relative) in patients with moderate to large amounts of inducible ischemia. These findings have significant consequences for future approaches to post–single photon emission computed tomography patient management if confirmed by prospective evaluations.(Circulation. 2003;107:2900-2906.)
# 31 of 57
September 13, 2006 08:28 (EDT)
Guido Belli
.. second and last ..
Predictors of Quality-of-Life Benefit After Percutaneous Coronary Intervention
John A. Spertus, MD, MPH; Adam C. Salisbury; Philip G. Jones, MS; Darcy Green Conaway, MD; Randall C. Thompson, MD
Background—Improving patients’ quality of life is a primary indication for percutaneous coronary intervention (PCI), yet little is known about patient characteristics associated with greater quality-of-life improvement from the procedure. This study was conducted to identify patient characteristics associated with quality-of-life benefit after PCI.
Methods and Results—A consecutive series of 1518 patients undergoing PCI in nonacute myocardial infarction settings
were prospectively enrolled into an observational study documenting their postprocedural health status. We examined univariate and multivariable associations between baseline patient characteristics and quality of life 1 year after the procedure using the disease-specific Seattle Angina Questionnaire (SAQ) to quantify the impact of patients’ coronary disease on their quality of life. Baseline angina frequency and physical function were the strongest predictors of quality-of-life improvement 1 year after PCI. In comparing patients without angina to those experiencing monthly, weekly, and daily angina, the quality-of-life improvements (mean_SEM) were 21.42.1, 30.72.2, and 34.62.6 points greater (P=0.001). Patients with mild, moderate, and severe physical limitation improved 13.81.9, 20.02.1, and 13.53.5 points more than those with minimal baseline physical limitation (P=0.001). These findings were maintained in multivariable models correcting for baseline differences in demographic, clinical, disease-severity, and health-status variables. Conclusions—Preprocedural angina frequency is the most important prognostic indicator of quality-of-life improvement after PCI. Although substantial quality-of-life benefits are attained in most patients with preprocedural angina, more careful consideration of the potential benefits and risks of the procedure are needed in asymptomatic patients.
(Circulation. 2004;110:3789-3794.)
# 32 of 57
September 13, 2006 11:30 (EDT)
D Hackam
agreed (w/Hugh)
I agree with Dr McIntyre. One of the problems is the moving target nature of this field -- continual improvements in PCI technology and adjunctive therapy, together with improvements in medical therapy, make those old trials much less useful. Remarkably some of the data suggesting that CABG is better than PCI that is still being quoted and touted is from the pre-stent era (let alone pre-DES). I'd like to see a modern, contemporary trial comparing the very best in PCI to the very best in medicine, but unfortunately by the time such a trial is planned, recruited, completed, and presented, the technologies and therapeutic strategies used will already be out of date. Moreover, I don't know of any such trial being conducted (aside from in the diabetic population).

So we are left with our intuition, until someone does such a trial. Pathophysiologically we know that at least 70-80% of ACS is caused by non-obstructing low grade lesions that don't show up well on angiography. We know that stenting across one or two or even three lesions does not change the residual disease in the rest of the coronary tree (by the time one lesion is present, >90% of the entire tree is diseased according to Steve Nissen's IVUS data). We know that medical and lifestyle therapy passivate and regress atherosclerosis throughout the entire tree, in other circulations (peripheral, aortic, cerebral, carotid), thereby preventing events in other circulations. Finally, stroke is an even more heterogenous entity, and squashing/stenting/cutting out disease in a carotid may have no effect on reducing future cardioembolic/lacunar/intracranial strokes. Thus one can build an outstanding pathophysiologic/theoretical case that medical therapy will always trump PCI for stable disease, but that is not the same as evidence from clinical trials.
# 33 of 57
September 15, 2006 08:12 (EDT)
Melissa Walton-Shirley
Regarding Joel's post # 16
I've been reading your posts and it's been an interesting discussion. Joel, when you asked what we would do with an abnormal stress ECG on your patient the "judge"-I'm always reminded of the old Bruce data. It usually backs me up in my decision to cath. It takes a lot of the guess work out of the process.
An excellent review was published in 2002 European Heart Journal as commentary with the data from TIBET (Total Ischemic Burden European Trial) 682 patients with stable angina underwent stress testing--. There was an HR of 1.06 for every 30 seconds less of treadmill time. Time to ST segment depression and exercise capacity were more closely tied to outcome than extent of ST depression. (This is in contrast to APSIS which demonstrated adverse outcome directly proportional to depth of ST depression). In view of this data, his lack of symptomatology was not in the least reassuring.
Not that any of us weren't already aware of this data, it's just comforting to note that old data is still valuable in prognostication and guiding our way to the cath lab. My two cents worth? you were perfectly justified in cathing this gentleman and I would have done the same.

Melissa
# 34 of 57
September 15, 2006 09:55 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
Thanks Melissa
It is often hard enough to remember the trials, let alone remember the enrollment criteria to know if the results apply to a given patient.

When arguments over data begin, I'm always reminded of the quote (and I don't remember who said it) "Democracy is a terrible form of government....but it is the best form of government the world has known".

An easy substitution would be "Randomized trials are a terrible way to determine individual patient care...but..."

# 35 of 57
September 16, 2006 03:32 (EDT)
Melissa Walton-Shirley
Agree
Joel,
I agree with you. Common sense should prevail in all things, but it's sooooo nice when RCT's agree with common sense!
Melissa
# 36 of 57
September 16, 2006 05:38 (EDT)
David Cohen
Democracy
I thought the democracy quote was something like "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others". I always liked that quote.
# 37 of 57
September 16, 2006 05:53 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
David is correct
I think your version is much closer to the original quote! HOw true it is.
# 38 of 57
September 18, 2006 06:18 (EDT)
Gregg Stone
Evidence-based Medicine and Art
Fascinating discussion. Applying medical studies to patient care is not so complicated. Randomized controlled trials (RCTs) are indispensable tools to provide clear direction in patients who fit the entry criteria for those investigations. What have we learned? In STEMI, angioplasty when done in a timely fashion compared to medical therapy reduces death, reinfarction, stroke, hemorrhagic stroke and recurrent ischemia. In NSTEMI, the weight of the evidence supports the finding that angioplasty reduces death, MI and recurrent ischemia. In chronic stable angina, angioplasty with today’s devices is more effective than medical therapy in relieving ischemia and symptoms, and improving quality of life. There is certainly no data that angioplasty prevents MI or prolongs life in this setting, so it should be used only for patients with refractory symptoms or those who wish to have less angina or take fewer anti-anginal medications. There is no good data to support treating silent ischemia, though ACIP and a few of the other trials mentioned are promising, warranting future studies. The art of medicine is applying the data from these randomized trials as a guide to individual patients who wouldn’t have been eligible for randomization (i.e. the example of the Judge).

Regarding drug-eluting stents, at TCT last year we were the first to show that both Cypher and Taxus increase late stent thrombosis by 0.2% per year over bare metal stents (and many criticized us then for making this claim). Yet there was no overall increase in death and MI. Why not? Restenosis is not as benign a process as you may believe. Almost 10% of cases of restenosis present as myocardial infarction (e.g. Chen MS et al. AHJ 2006;151:1260-4). The ESC meta-analyses were limited by lack of access to patient level data (by no fault of the authors). At TCT this year the complete meta-analyses from the Cypher and Taxus RCTs will be reported by independent physician led groups which will extend last year’s analysis by an additional year in nearly 5200 patients from 8 blinded randomized trials, again showing no increase in overall death, overall non cardiac death or MI with DES compared to BMS.

Finally, does no one remember how difficult restenosis was for patients, and for physicians to manage? In complex cases presenting as recurrent angina every few months often necessitating 2-3 repeat procedures within a year or ultimate referral to bypass surgery, signifying procedural failure, and in this regard tremendously frustrating and disappointing for the patient and caregivers? Many or most procedures (and drugs) we administer as physicians are to improve quality of life, not necessarily extend survival, and in this regard drug-eluting stents have markedly improved symptom-free existence for our patients – on an absolute level 10%-20% or more of patients benefit from incremental freedom from clinical restenosis with DES compared to BMS. Don’t misunderstand me – early and late stent thrombosis with DES is a real problem that we must better characterize and develop better devices to abolish – and we will. But the frequency of this adverse complication of DES must be put in perspective in light of their advantages.
# 39 of 57
September 18, 2006 08:25 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
Thanks Gregg
Good to hear from one of the recognized authorities on this topic. I, for one, have not forgotten the joys of treating recurrent ISR, and I'm glad those days are gone.

Interestingly, I was on call this last weekend, and I had two cases that relate directly to this discussion.

The first patient was a 47 yo male who suffered an inferior MI in December 2004 while traveling through Kentucky. He was treated with stent placement to RCA, and the LAD was stented two days later in a staged manner. (He states that both stents "had medicine on them", but no additional details were available). He collapsed Friday afternoon while pouring concrete, and his presentation ECG showed 5mm ST elevation anterolaterally and inferiorly. Emergent cath revealed the RCA stent to be widely patent, but there was a large thrombus burden just proximal to the stent, and extending into the stent. The LAD stent was also patent, but thrombus was all throughout the vessel just proximal to the stent. He had been taking his ASA and Plavix as prescribed.

Case 2 was a 43 yo woman who is s/p Cypher stent placement to the proximal LAD in January, 2006 in the setting of an acute MI. Presented to a remote ER with chest pain and anterior ST elevation. Fog prevented helicopter transport; therefore, she received retavase and was transferred by ambulance. On arrival to the cath lab, her pain was nearly gone and the ECG was much improved. The coronaries looked great except for evidence of mild residual thrombus along the wall of the proximal LAD stent. She also had taken her ASA and Plavix as prescribed.

Interestingly, Case #2 is certain that her pharmacy switched her to 'generic' Plavix when she had the prescription filled last month. Likewise, Case #1 (a horrible historian) also thinks the pharmacy "made a switch" in his Plavix the last time he had it filled.

Is anyone else having a similar experience?
# 40 of 57
September 18, 2006 10:36 (EDT)
Mike Hawke
welcome
Welcome to Dr. Stone a true world expert.
The heart.org is moving up!
# 41 of 57
September 19, 2006 04:47 (EDT)
Godwin constantine
should we continue clopidogrel indefinitely
Now wehave a situation where late thrombosis is high when clopidogrel is withdrawn.

Dr Vermani shows that lack of endothelialisation extends to more than 41 months after deployment.

1. the CAPRIE study showed that clopedogrel is as good as if not better than aspirin. Should we continue clopidogrel in PCI patients indefinitely rather than aspirin.

2. should the dose of serolimus in SES reduced to allow early endothelialisation.
# 42 of 57
September 19, 2006 05:15 (EDT)
nair v.parameswaran
Cypher, Taxus or Genous Stent
Having implanted all the above 3 types of stents namely Cypher, Taxus or Genous types of DES Stents in different patients , the recent Bacelona storm is sending ripples in the form of anxious phone calls from patients who had these types of stents implanted in the last few years. This is particularly so in a couple of patients who developed bleeding problems associated with dual antiplatelet therapy for a year or more in the case of cypher and taxus (as genous stent require only a month of dual antiplatelets) with plavix (clopidogril) 75 mg and cardiprin (aspirin) 100 mg daily. One had severe spontaneous bleeding in the elbow and another nasal and gum bleeding. As they were on omeprazole , there was no abdominal problem. I stopped both antiplatelet drugs for 2 days. Then restarted plavix alone and later re-introduced cardiprin 50 mg daily ( one tablet every alternate days) without any problem. I would like to know the experience of others confronted with these types of problems.
Dr V P Nair, Singapore
# 43 of 57
September 19, 2006 10:11 (EDT)
Melissa Walton-Shirley
Sticking to appropriate uses for Clopedigrel might help
Standing in the ICU last Friday with a GI bleeder who completely exanguinated in front of me, (yes he died), I was cursing Plavix, once again---this gentleman being at age 83 with tight AS and who had been bleeding, unrecognized for several hours. Literally on his heels, a young gentleman came into the other ICU bed, DES and Plavix and had a 4 unit GI bleed--Stents implanted 1 1/2 year ago. Fortunately, he survived. And yes, I'd still leave this guy on Clopedigrel indefinitely as soon as the GI guy declares his ulcer healed.
Lesson number 1: The 1st patient had refused Coumadin for Afib and was placed on Plavix instead. I submit that Coumadin is much more benign than plavix--easier to utilize vitamin K and get FFP up from the blood bank than platelets. So, I'd implore our family practice population to NOT utilize plavix for Afib-thromboembolic risk and believe me, it's being done despite no data. It leaves a lasting impression when a man vomits up something bright red that looks like a placenta followed by refractory asystlole to drive the point home about appropriate and inappropriate uses of Clopedigrel.
Lesson number 2??: I agree that Re-stenosis was a real problem and it sent me to the cath lab in the 1990's to the point that I have two bulging discs in my T-spine, but the DES technology is far far from perfect. So, I guess lesson number 2 for us all is "patience." The answer is still out there somewhere between clotting and exsanguination. I just hope we find it in my life time.
I have no experience with "generic" plavix and adverse outcome ** just curious: were these patients smoking?
Melissa
# 44 of 57
September 19, 2006 03:01 (EDT)
Fahim Jafary
amazing discussion
Fantastic discussion, learnt a lot from this. We had alluded to the issue of late or unexpected stent thrombosis way back in 2003 when the US DES experience had either just started or was about to commence (see story ID number 244329 on Theheart.org)

Since then I have personally modified my practice by:

1. Post dilating all DES at high pressure using non-compliant balloons to ensure complete apposition (something we used to do while in fellowship but had stopped when the new generation bare stents came about). In our early DES experience we deployed these stents with just one inflation at 12-14 atmospheres.

2. Continuing clopidogrel and aspirin indefinitely. Fortunately generic clopidogrel is available here which costs the equivalent of $0.25 a pill - RELATIVELY affordable at least for the folks who are willing to pay for DES but the emphasis is on the word "relatively".

3. Lately we've moved towards more and more use of the Medtronic Endeavor stent which has a slightly higher obligatory late loss (but similar TLR rates) - I'd rather have SOME late loss than none. Also, they report the lowest stent thrombosis rates although I'm not sure how true that is.

4. Generally avoiding two stents in bifurcations and do them the old fashioned way.

Lately I can only recall one patient who died suddenly at home (two years ago) and he had a bifurcation stent system and one dialysis patient very recently who clotted off a 2.5 x 18 mm stent but was also clotting off his dialysis fistula, subclavian and jugular veins (?hypercoag). I think continuing dual antiplatelet therapy indefinitely is key and the obvious argument here is costs (esp when paying $3-4 a pill) and bleeding and hematological complications - and although I monitor for the latter and haven't seen any neutropenia so far, I know it can occur. I think, as Dr. STone points out, there's something to be said for not havnig to worry too much about restenosis (and we really haven't seen many restenoses lately !) but time will whether there's truly going to be a great trade off viz-a-viz, these drug eluting stents clotting off 6 years from now.

Fahim H. Jafary, MD, FACC
Aga Khan University Hospital
Karachi, Pakistan
# 45 of 57
September 19, 2006 03:11 (EDT)
Fahim Jafary
amazing discussion
Fantastic discussion, learnt a lot from this. We had alluded to the issue of late or unexpected stent thrombosis way back in 2003 when the US DES experience had either just started or was about to commence (see story ID number 244329 on Theheart.org)

Since then I have personally modified my practice by:

1. Post dilating all DES at high pressure using non-compliant balloons to ensure complete apposition (something we used to do while in fellowship but had stopped when the new generation bare stents came about). In our early DES experience we deployed these stents with just one inflation at 12-14 atmospheres.

2. Continuing clopidogrel and aspirin indefinitely. Fortunately generic clopidogrel is available here which costs the equivalent of $0.25 a pill - RELATIVELY affordable at least for the folks who are willing to pay for DES but the emphasis is on the word "relatively".

3. Lately we've moved towards more and more use of the Medtronic Endeavor stent which has a slightly higher obligatory late loss (but similar TLR rates) - I'd rather have SOME late loss than none. Also, they report the lowest stent thrombosis rates although I'm not sure how true that is.

4. Generally avoiding two stents in bifurcations and do them the old fashioned way.

Lately I can only recall one patient who died suddenly at home (two years ago) and he had a bifurcation stent system and one dialysis patient very recently who clotted off a 2.5 x 18 mm stent but was also clotting off his dialysis fistula, subclavian and jugular veins (?hypercoag). I think continuing dual antiplatelet therapy indefinitely is key and the obvious argument here is costs (esp when paying $3-4 a pill) and bleeding and hematological complications - and although I monitor for the latter and haven't seen any neutropenia so far, I know it can occur. I think, as Dr. STone points out, there's something to be said for not havnig to worry too much about restenosis (and we really haven't seen many restenoses lately !) but time will whether there's truly going to be a great trade off viz-a-viz, these drug eluting stents clotting off 6 years from now.

Fahim H. Jafary, MD, FACC
Aga Khan University Hospital
Karachi, Pakistan
# 46 of 57
September 19, 2006 09:36 (EDT)
william rollefson
It's amazing
I think I've posted many times regarding this topic, but all of you are giving real world examples of the fact that we don't practice in a vacuum. Whether it is the massive GI bleed, patient noncompliance, swithcing to generic clopidogrel, yada yada yada, choosing a DES is not as simple as it seemed in 2003. Yet, despite these issues, I am amazed at the high level of usage (% wise) in the US. My theory is the following and Dr. Stone if you have any info, please pass it on: The people at the highest risk of SAT(late) are the people who would have done well with a BMS in the first place; i.e. they never commpletely endothelialize their DES and when the plavix is stopped, they're at risk. What we need is some brilliant investigator to tell us when DES is needed, based on some yet unidentified marker for restenosis. In the meantime, I discuss the pro/cons with my patients fairly extensively and am continually suprised at how often I'm told not to put a DES in. Admittedly, this may not be a completely unbiased opinion, but you gotta prove it to me that a 3.0-4.0 x 12 mm lesion needs a DES every time. I think it's rediculous to use the things every time, and we are terribly myopic if we do.
Ok, now I'm done and I really feel better.
Bill.
# 47 of 57
September 19, 2006 10:20 (EDT)
JOEL REGINELLI
Tobacco happy
Yes, Melissa, my acute MIs from this weekend had many things in common: both had suffered a prior MI, resided in the same small town east of Cincinnati, had recently been changed to generic Plavix, and continued to smoke despite their prior acute MIs.
# 48 of 57
September 20, 2006 12:04 (EDT)
David Cohen
Who needs a DES?
Bill's suggestion is a very good one-- someone needs to identify critical genetic factors that predict significant restenosis with a high degree of reliability so that we can truly understand which patients do and don't need a DES. Unfortunately, in the US, it is currently impossible to do this research in a meaningful fashion since it would require a sizeable population of patients receiving bare metal stents to do the study. Sounds like a job for one of our Canadian or European colleagues!
# 49 of 57
September 20, 2006 06:48 (EDT)
robert hillman
Plavix and Clopidogrel Usage
Fascinating discussion. I want to add that just giving Plavix and Aspirin indefinitely is unfortunately not a simple answer. Patients show variability in response to both agents and many do not achieve very high levels of platelet inhibition. There needs to be a better understanding of the % of platelets that need to be inhibitied to have good outcomes. Further, both these agents increase bleeding risk as the dose increases which needs to be figured into the equation.
# 50 of 57
September 20, 2006 08:02 (EDT)
Melissa Walton-Shirley
We are evolving our decision making process and rightly so
I think William hit it on the head. "I discuss the pro's and con's with my patients fairly extensively"--which is what it takes t avoid some of this blood letting. Patients aren't very forthcoming with contraindications until you lay out the long term clopedigrel use in good detail, and its implications , then they suddenly remember their recurrent bleeding and polyp history.
For so long, the stent selection has been based on lesion length, vessel diameter, degree of tortuosity, whether or not they are diabetic, acute MI or not, etc. It was something discussed at the end of the table with no thought to patient preference. Here- to -fore, there was absolutely NO reason to include the patient in that process. It's taken us a long time to change the thinking to include the implant-EE in the decision making for stent selection, not just the implant-ER.
# 51 of 57
September 21, 2006 12:04 (EDT)
D Walsh
Question for Dr Stone
Gregg
Just a clarifying question about your statement that 10% of patients with restenosis present with MI... was restenosis an incidental finding during an cath or are you saying that 10% of restenotic lesion have such a morbid presentation?
dw
# 52 of 57
September 23, 2006 06:52 (EDT)
Andrew Sutton
DES and AMI
This really is a fascinating discussion. I'm inherently concerned about the deployment of DES in AMI patients. These patients have thrombus and disrupted endothelium which the body is trying to heal - why stick in a stent with a drug that delays healing? I also agree absolutely with previous comments about meticulous technique, proper stent deployment etc. etc. If you are worrried about high pressure inflation in AMI reducing TIMI flow (eg post stent deployment with a noncompliant ballon), upsize your BMS and deploy at nominal pressure. All the stent thrombosis I have seen has been in patients with their initial stent deployment done for AMI - although of course they were not all in DES. Let's not forget that stent thrombosis with BMS has always been with us too....
# 53 of 57
September 29, 2006 12:54 (EDT)
Berdouz Khalid
To Fahim Jafary
You should be careful about the defintion of Stent thrombosis in the Endeavor trial program and Taxus/Cypher trial program. Sudden death haven't been add to the thrombosis rate announced by medtronic and Taxus trials and Cypher have a different way to count thrombosis threw them.
# 54 of 57
October 3, 2006 07:54 (EDT)
Andrew Davie
Poll question
Isn't it fascinating that there have been over a 1000 reponses to the poll question linked to this topic, with a clear majority agreeing that PCI for stable angina is grossly overused ?
# 55 of 57
October 19, 2006 01:10 (EDT)
Anit Dua
How would you treat this patient with DES ?
A 85 year old patient admitted with SOB and hypoxia. PO2 of 59 on 4 liters O2. VQ scan high probability for PE. He has been on aspirin and plavix since he had DES three months ago. He has had 2 episodes of recurrent severe epistaxis while on DES. Patient on admission had HB of 8.3 and received a unit of blood and was anti coagulated with heparin and then coumadin and continued on aspirin and plavix. Stool for occult blood positive but no significant drop in H/H since transfusion or overt epistaxis. Clinically patient doing much better but he is at high risk of bleeding on coumadin, aspirin and plavix and renal insufficiency. Can aspirin or plavix be discontinued ?
# 56 of 57
October 23, 2006 03:02 (EDT)
Fahim Jafary
To Berdouz Khalid
Berdouz

I'm aware of the difference in definitions between these studies. My point about the Endeavor stents was basically that I'm more comfortable with a slightly higher late loss (provided it doesn't translate to clinical TLR) than NO late loss, which is often what we see with the Cypher stent. Hence my tendency, lately, has been to shift to this stent. That said, one has to be very clear that the Endeavor stent does not have that long an experience compared to the Cypher and Taxus stents so time will tell.


Fahim Jafary
# 57 of 57
October 23, 2006 03:09 (EDT)
Fahim Jafary
To Anita Dua
Very difficult situation but stopping ASA and Plavix would have some risks and here's perhaps a prime example of when a BMS should be considered - an elderly chap with (potentially) multiple problems in the future. Of course I don'tknwo what the lesion characteristics were so maybe a DES was indeed the best choice at the time.

With your present situation, if the patient can take all three drugs that'd be ideal - I've done that many times in patients with anterior MIs undergoing primary PCI and have an anterior wall motion abnormality. But most of those are not 85 year olds with bleeding problems and it sounds like keeping him on all three would be potentially risky. One possible cop out would be if the patient had a RAVEL trial type of lesion (a bit unlikely in an 85 year old) and received an 18 mm Cypher, then based on the trial one can justify stopping Plavix after three months of therapy. I'll have to check whether 85 year olds would have made it into RAVEL though. What I'd do then is keep the patient on warfarin and aspirin and, assuming you plan six months of warfarin for his PE, once he's done put him back on Plavix. Even then, I suspect there'd be risks of late stent thrombosis but perhaps the warfarin would lower that risk. Whatever you do, a detailed discussion with patient and family would be necessary. Good luck.

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