Boston, MA - Cardiologists are more than twice as likely as family practitioners to receive payments from industry for consulting, speaking, serving on boards, or enrolling patients in clinical trials and were also significantly more likely than pediatricians, anesthesiologists, or surgeons to receive these types of payments [1]. Authors of a new survey speculate that cardiologists, more so than the other groups studied, may be targeted as thought leaders and because their prescribing patterns influence those of nonspecialists.
Results from the survey, which examined acceptance of gifts, samples, reimbursements, or payments by anesthesiologists, cardiologists, family practitioners, general surgeons, internists, and pediatricians, appear in the April 26, 2007 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.
As Dr Eric G Campbell (Institute for Health Policy, Massachusetts General Hospital, and Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA) et al report, of 3504 doctors surveyed in 2003-2004, 1662 completed the questionnaire (52%), with cardiologists having the lowest response rate of all physician types surveyed, at 42%. For the whole group, 83% of respondents reported receiving food or beverages in the workplace; 78% said they'd accepted drug samples; 35% declared receiving reimbursements for meeting expenses or admission to CME sessions; and 28% said they'd received payments for various services. But cardiologists in particular were more likely to have accepted samples, gifts, or payments than their colleagues in some or all other fields; by contrast, anesthesiologists were consistently less likely to receive or accept industry benefits.
The finding speaks to the "peer influence" cardiologists hold. "Our findings suggest that industry may focus marketing efforts on physicians who are perceived as influencing the prescribing behaviors of other physicians," Campbell and colleagues observe. Cardiologists, they write, have "prescribing patterns as specialists and opinion leaders [that] are thought to influence the prescribing patterns of nonspecialists."
Campbell et al also note that across the medical fields they surveyed, physicians working in smaller group or solo practices were also significantly more likely to receive industry favors or compensation in some form than were physicians working in hospitals or clinics, where there may be policies restricting physician-industry relationships or drug formularies or agreements that restrict drug choices.
Further research should address the risks, benefits, or overall appropriateness of relationships between different specialist groups and drug-, device-, and medically related industries, the authors conclude.
Source
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Campbell EG, Gruen RL, Mountford J, et al. A national survey of physician-industry relationships. N Engl J Med 2007; 356:1742-1750.
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April 28, 2007 04:26 (EDT)
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former drug rep As a RN and former pharma rep I was apalled at the use of inferior products due to the rep being a friend of the physician; with TOTAL disregard for what was the best medication for treating their patient.
Overall, samples could be mailed to the physician's and reps should be done away with as they add significantly to the end cost of their products. Reps average between $50,000 to $100,000 per year plus a car plus a computer plus health benefits-multiply that times the over 5000+ reps who worked for the last company I represented and you can see it adds significantly to the expenses of the manufacturer.
As well, once a year we would have a national sales meeting with the company spending several millions of dollars to fly everyone in, use of the hotel, food, entertainment, plus, plus, plus.
It amazed me in this day and age, that I had to call on physician's with the same drug that had been on the market for several years touting bogus company funded studies. Did I really bring something of value to the physician-most likely not. I was also a minority in the field, as I was a middle aged white male as opposed to the young females that predominate the field with no clinical experience at all, no medical background, just a short skirt is all they had to offer.
Stop the foolishness now-DRUG REPS MUST GO! |
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April 28, 2007 07:14 (EDT)
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i like the females...I like lunch too... I like the young females and take offence to the post suggesting that we should do away with reps.
1 I think they are a valuable source of information
2 when i'm having a busy day nothing is better than a 'young female' smiling rep eager to talk to me and feed me lunch..
3 it is a private enterprise that should not be regulated unduly. Drug companies are a business and if they choose to pay reps 100k a year and give them a car and have them go to doctors offices we have no place in regulating how they do business...if we just did things 'we thought was right' well why don't we do away with plaintiff's lawyers and not allow them to sue for frivolous things...that costs the 'system' much more than drug reps!
What about cutting ceo pay; again nothing useful is done by paying them 400 X the average workers salary. Maybe A Rod shouldn't be paid 250 million?
But we live in a free society that allows business to be conducted freely without undue restrictions.
So in a time when doctors are getting crunched from every angle I say bring on the young, blonde rep with lunch..I'm interested in what she has to say and yep I'm hungry for lunch too!
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April 28, 2007 09:13 (EDT)
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Pah--------LEESE Mike,
I truly don't even know where to start with a comment on your post. I guess when it's all said and done, it's probably just exactly the way many male cardiologists feel but just don't say it. But I hope not. It's 2007 for Pete's sake.
I am no more apt to be happy about a male than a female drug rep. It's all the same pitch and I tend to agree with Ron. If the cost of pharmaceuticals will come down, I'm all for just mailing the samples.
Melissa |
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April 29, 2007 08:00 (EDT)
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melissa You know I respect your viewpoint and you know I was being a little facetious.
But, I do say what others think...and remember the drug companies do provide free samples.
For those of you that still provide them to patients; which I think was a great service you may want to check with your lawyers.
Yes, those wonderful people have managed to successfully sue doctors that 'dispense' medication from their offices on the grounds that they are not a pharmacy and have poked holes in their method of distribution and tracking of pills and doses. In the broader scheme of things it is patients that want this legal system and now when they cannot get samples well...it is sort of their fault.
Just a cautionary note and I would advise md's that dispense and keep samples in their offices to check with their attorneys and review the law on this area. I think it is clear.
This was a side note but I thought I should educate peopel about this issue.
As far as the reps go I look at it like one of the few 'perks' left in industry for doctors.
I was at a party last night and asked why an internist friend of mine didn't take medicare..he said it just wasn't worth the hassle and that 75% of primary care in our area refuse to see medicare patients!
Also United Health care has gotten so big they actually had a plan to charge doctors out of pocket expenses for labs done in facilities that United didnt own!
Examples of what is happening on the reiumbursement fron.
Only when patients can't get care because their doc won't take medicare or their insurance will the insurers listen.
I'm just illustrating that we as physicians are taking it 7 ways from Sunday from the lawyers, insurance companies and politically correct police...we should keep some of the few perks left with the job.
I may espouse an unpopular opinion but its mine nevertheless. |
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April 29, 2007 12:50 (EDT)
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re Drug reps don't bother me too much - I eat their food, and don't stand around to listen to what they say. Listening to their inane banter and watching them pretend to care about my personal life gives me a headache.
The only thing that does bother me is thier ability to obtain our prescription information from pharmacies - i.e. how much of Drug X we are prescribing, etc. I think Vermont put a stop to this, but I can't believe that something like this is tolerated. |
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April 29, 2007 03:05 (EDT)
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April 29, 2007 11:01 (EDT)
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give us a little credit As a graduating fellow, they recently tried to cut off drug rep lunches from residents and interns for conferences. Following suit with UPenn, etc. I think it is ridiculous. Come on, like I am going to change my practice because of a substudy showing a benefit with some drug no one ever uses?
Just because they buy me a slice of pizza, a diet coke, and give me a 20 cent pen, doesn't mean I am going to abandon all that I know and have learned. To think that we are that gulable is preposterous. For those of us trained in cardiology, we did do at least by my count 10 years of additional training AFTER 4 years of college. If someone wants to buy me lunch, that's the least they could do.
If they want to cut costs, mail the drugs, bag the reps, but keep the food coming.(boston market please) |
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April 30, 2007 05:43 (EDT)
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right on Daniel! You are right on Daniel and it is pure hypocrisy on the part of attendings.
When I was training 15 years ago all this politically correct garbage was in full swing.
The attendings that looked down on lunches for residents had just in the years previous taken cruises in the Mediterranean from companies! Also, senior residents that used to be the first in line for free lunch when they made 30K suddenly turned 'holier than thou' when they were attendings making 300k and a free lunch didn't matter! Let's be honest; don't we have bigger fish to fry than coming down on poor overworked residents that at least deserve a free lunch?
I gave a talk to some obgyn residents a few months back and they scarfed down seconds of the lunch I brought! I forgot how much it meant to them and I could see the appreciation on their faces...let's not forget that we all were in training and let's not bow down to the politically correct and yes ridiculous rules and regs being forced upon us.
To quote David Spade "There I said it!" |
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April 30, 2007 02:55 (EDT)
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re: All of those who claim that small gifts don't sway you, this isn't what the psych literature says time and time again. The human mind has a desire to reciprocate any amount of gift given to one, no matter how small.
You may claim that you aren't swaying by a slice of pizza or a journal article given to you with a pen, but you probably are.
If you weren't, they wouldn't do it. Drug companies aren't stupid (at least when it comes to marketing) |
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pizza, pride, and prejudice Two simple examples to make my point, regardless of what companies or psych literature may say.
Mavik, drug I have not prescribed unless a patient was already on it, brings us lunch once a month for the past 3 years. Still have not changed my prescription pattern.
Coreg rep brings lunch once a month to office, along with pretzels and journal articles each week. I still prescribe the same proportion of coreg and toprol xl to my CHF patients. I actually have increased my percentage of prescriptions for toprol xl in the past 2 years(convenience of once a day dosing and cost)
I was wined and dined when I was interviewing for jobs. One group was very nice, great food, but not the right fit. I didn't sign with them despite the free food and drinks. Amazing, right? Maybe if they gave me a t-shirt and a pen?
I am not saying that EVERYONE is immune, but no matter how many times I hear that guy on the radio talk about RESCUE 2000 (snake oil, eye of newt and dragon's hair) which will cure everything from male pattern baldness, impotence to hypertension, I won't buy, prescribe, or sample it to my dog, let alone a human being.
Just my rant. Maybe I have stronger will power than others or are more stubborn, but I doubt it.
I am polite to the reps, but I also don't let them get away with misrepresenting the literature. |
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thank you Daniel than you for injecting common sense into the arena. You are exactly correct.
Let me give you an anecdote of how the other day I was slammed with work and the nurse asked a rep to bring lunch...made my whole day. I was hungry and got some pizza; my whole staff also was happy to get lunch.
Daniel you gave the perspective of someone finishing training let me say from a practising cardiologist that the staff doesn't make a lot of money. These lunches are worth a few thousand dollars a year to them and our competititors have lunches...so the word gets around the so and so cardiology group 'treats' the employees right!
My accountant does work for a pizza store so he gets free pizza...its the way business is done. We are cutomers of a product..a product drug companies are already advertising directly to the patient on television!
Doctors have ourselves to blame for allowing regulatory forces and non physicians to emasculinate us from one of the perks of our once great but still noble profession.
Yes there are benefits to membership..free lunches and the reps fawming over you is one of them! Just like pro sports players get the groupies and the fans...just a part of the game! |
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Have to agree with Daniel This is a fascinating discussion, and I was somewhat dismayed at the national news, portraying that Drug companies have undue influence on prescribing practices and then backing that up by saying that about 70% accepted samples, and about 95% had heard of drug reps. I don't doubt that there is influence, that is marketing, and that's why it exists in every single market. Also perks are nothing new in business as a way to make a sale. Why then, does it become so evil for the same to extend to patient care?
I'm certainly not going to prescribe a medication that is not indicated, but (as an example) if I decide an ARB is needed, I may choose one that we have samples for (is there really any difference among the 18++++ ARBS on the market?).
Also, if it is so clear that one medication is better than another (as implied by drug reps influencing us to prescribe bad meds), why not just ban the 'bad' ones? Why give any choice at all? You want a nonselective B-blocker? you get labetolol (not Coreg or Coreg CR)!
There is obviously concern that marketing affects our prescribing patterns, but marketing also affects patient preferences (Hey doc I just saw a commercial for Plavix and I want it to prevent heart attack and stroke). Why not ban DTC ads (well, maybe they should be banned...).
We are in a capitalist society, and drug companies are going to develop drugs and claim that they are better than their competitors. It's what Coke and Pepsi do. Drug companies do it to. It is up to us to decipher the fluff (non-noninferiority trials and composite endpoints) from the substance. We have to use our brains, but we can certainly hear what they have to say (if we want).
As for the trend of medical schools banning reps, I guess I have no real problem with that other than it is a feeble gesture. But to fully go along with that philosephy, perhaps they should also give up industry grant support - even if unrestricted - as that probably has influence too.
Ok, I'm off my soapbox now.
Disclaimer: Stats and numbers cited in this post have probably been exaggerated to emphasize a point. :)
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Daniel I couldn't have said it better myself.
You really hit on some key points and I particularyl like your use of the term 'feeble gesture'.
I think this summarizes the a lot of what is going on.
It is symptomatic of the decline in power of the medical profession ; two quick examples
1 now some insurance companies are actually paying less than medicare rates!
2 the other day a social worker yes social worker reviewed a chart of a patient of mine and then complained the ceo about my patient care!
We live in a world where physicians don't have the power or influence we once did; I don't think the answer is go along with these 'feeble gestures' and politically correct dribble about getting rid of 'undue pharmaceutical influence' but to come clean and state the truth and how we really feel like you did Daniel.
I believe you speak for a lot of doctors and we should stand up and say how ridiculous all this is.
The points you made about arb's and direct to consumer marketing are things I had thought of and am glad you too had the same ideas.
I saw on cnbc last night how the manger of a hedge fund that had lost huge amounts of money now has another one...and the commentators said "hey if you don't succeed try again..!" So in business there is no real 'penalty' for failure...whereas for us the penatly for failure or 'perceived' failure is tremendous as anyone accused of malpractice knows.
My point is, is that there is always a double standard for medicine whether it comes to advertising, dealing with vendors of the appearance of making mistakes.
I don't know what the answer is but I think we can see that by not speaking up and verbalizing our opinions doctors are , by being passive, part of the problem. |
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Daniel and Dave Sorry I should have included Dave in the post as I was including him with Daniel as 'excellent posts dude!' |
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Balance is the key Surely one of the main things we are trained is to take a balanced view of everything. If we listen about the chest pain but not the fact that it only ever occurs after a spicy pizza and never with exercise then likely we'll get the diagnosis wrong...
If we read one paper on drug X that shows a reduction in CV mortality but forget to read the thirty others showing an increase in all cause death, then we'll practice bad medicine...
Yada Yada Yada
Now get this, in this country an advisor gets a commission for getting me to sign up for an income protection plan, then they get a rolling commission for the rest of the life of the agreement. That's fair? Legal? Sure!!
Now I'm not saying that we should be lowering our standards to those of the financial services industry but hey, surely there needs to some kind of balanced view.
Until there is I'll be taking the balanced view myself, of the information, educational support, research support and evidence that comes my way. I think I'm big enough and grown up enough to do so.
At least until I start getting paid cold hard cash to prescribe drug X rather than drug Y... then I'll be worried.
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